I received an email from Steve at Garage of Evil (GoE) stating that he was thinking of banning Madison from the network because of a photo stream that she had on her page. I told him I was deleting my account at HauntSpace. He banned Madison, I deleted my account. Both happened on the same morning, but the decisions were not related. He and I hadn't talked since last week or the week before, so I had no idea what had been going on with the network. I sent an email saying I deleted my HS account; he sent an email saying he banned her. After I did it, I was kind of relieved, because I had an idea that if he actually DID ban her (which I didn't know at the time that he WAS doing), I'd probably get questions about it, and I didn't want to deal with it since it's not my network and not my decision to make.
Anyway, I didn't want the drama. I posted the update on my FB account, to state that there was no other reason than I don't want to be there anymore. No drama, no fighting, nothing like that... just one of those things that I choose not to be a part of anymore.
So then, Steve sends me an email and has given me his permission to share it with everyone so he can set the record straight on his end as well:
First, what Madison sent him:
Spooky Madison wrote:
Pete said there were rumors about you deleting me off GOE. Is it true? I'm not sure what's going on. Please, let me know what's happened? He said he heard it was because I wasn't a "haunter". What does that mean? I write & I told you that when I signed on... you said that was fine and now, because I don't hold a drill in my hand means I'm not a haunter? I don't understand that, Steve? A haunter can be a person that lives spooky things 24/7 and I do - I write ghost stories, short stories, I decorate for Halloween and I'm a party thrower for the holiday. Not everyone builds and you was ok with that before.
When Pete wrote me that thank you on his bulletin, it was because we'd all been through A LOT with Grimdaddy & PAHalloweenFreak. They bashed me all the time and for no reason and I didn't know them at all! I have no idea why they had decided that hated me and I have no idea why you banned me off GOE. What did I do? I told you awhile back that I would delete my account if you felt I wasn't GOE material and you said that I was fine...and now this. There must be something more that I'm not aware of. It's your site and I respect your opinion. I'm not mad at you or anyone else. I heard that Ghostess was upset with me and I don't know why. I don't know her, nor does she know me.
Take care, Steve.
And his reply to her:
Being a "haunter" had nothing to do with it. My site isn't for haunters, it's for haunters whose focus is building stuff. "Haunters" come in all stripes and love different aspects of the community at large. The GoE site caters to a niche, it's that simple.
Banning you wasn't an indictment of you being (or not being) a haunter, it was because you put up a photo frame titled "spooky madison's photos" and it showed nothing but a feed of pics drawn from the front page of the site. That was what originally pissed me off, and then after some thought I made up my mind that the only reason you're on the site at all is for self promotion of you, and your site. You don't actually build anything or contribute in any way thats meaningful to the mission of the site.
Let there be no doubt that I consider you a haunt enthusiast, I truly do. Your writing is also excellent as I have said all along and will continue to say.
I configured the GoE site intentionally to be open to the public, there is nothing on there you can't check out as a non-member. You're a member of virtually every haunt site on the web, so there is no chance of you losing touch with anyone due to not being a member of GoE.
And for the record, how would Pete know anything about my decision to ban you? I haven't had a single communication with him since we got in a tiff last year, and this decision was entirely mine. Actually, don't bother answering that. I honestly could not care less.
Regardless of the tone of this email, I truly do wish you the best. Keep writing, and keep up the movie review/discussion type stuff. A lot of haunters love it, and I think you do a great service contributing to that niche.
Again, he was cordial, direct and even complimentary - no bashing going on. I was surprised to find, however, that my name is thrown into this and that I am "upset" with her. I don't recall ever mentioning her to anyone other than Steve and one other person who is not involved in this at all that day, and by now, he's not very happy with her either because next thing I know, I'm hearing that Madison has posted a blog on HS about the incident, which is fine. That's her prerogative. Just as it's mine to post this blog. She mentioned getting banned from GoE, and that pissed Steve off because she basically LIED about why she was removed. It had nothing to do with being a haunter or not and everything to do with posting a slide show of other people's photos without their permission or some kind of explanation as to whose photos they were.
The next morning, I wake up to this little note from Pete in my inbox:
Subject: Nice Job Kiddo!
You're something else you know that.
You come on HauntSpace in the past, act like a complete baby because I deleted a blog, call me out on the site, delete most of your page content and even when we worked things out, you kept all that nonsense on the net (your blogs)
I allow you to talk down to me like I'm a dog, let you get stuff off your chest and even asked you to mod our site. Man I guess when it rains it pours.
You then delete your profile, and start bashing me and HauntSpace on Facebook?
What's wrong with you? When you came back, no one did anything to you. Madison didn't deserved to be booted off GOE either. He's a punk ass jackoff and you can tell him I said it. That's like kicking a puppy. Both of you are big mouth Haunters that think that your skill outweighs everything else in your life. I've been easy on your Deanna, but now, I lost ALL respect for
you. You tell that stupid punk that I'd gladly let him throw some punches at me. Even if he kicked my ass, I'd get at least ONE lick in.
Both of you are pathetic, you stand for nothing, cause problems and you especially have a mouth so big, you need someone to stick a tractor trailer in it.
I will never, ever talk to you again, neither one of you. I support NOTHING either one of you do and you can trust me, I can be 60 years old, you're another Wally and Ginny, no heart, lots of big mouth bullshit and a disgrace.
Thanks a lot D, salutes to you, you go girl!
Okay, whatever dude. Then at the urging of another friend, I read his latest ridiculous rant that he's so famous for and just LOVE how Steve and I are the worst of the worst again. While I'm there, I stopped by Madison's blog again, to find this little gem posted by her in reply to another comment:
"I agree & they can have at it...it was all handled poorly. I feel someone else was doing the string-pulling there in regards to myself & a few others that got deleted from their site, but that's unimportant now. Some people have to be top dog & I guess when it's not happening, they walk and have to post on other forums to try to get others to follow them in order to feel validated. When one feels she has some "magical control" over others. What that is, my friend, is manipulation & it doesn't fly on this site & thank God for that! "
I'm going to assume that Madison is referring to me. If so, I have "magical control"? I did not know that. I never had ANYONE deleted from the site. If I had wanted it done, I'd have gone on into the mod controls and done it myself. I have never wanted to be "top dog" or to have a following. I don't need validation. That little paragraph set me off on the road to angryville, even if it was not about me. I've hardly been posting much of anything anywhere regarding forums for quite some time, so you can kick that notion. Oh, and didn't a whole LOT of manipulation go on for a while there at HS while Pete's 2 best buds were pulling his strings? Yeah... I seem to remember something about that. I think Madison does too.
So I reply back to Pete:
Subject: Re: Nice Job Kiddo!
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 09:14:01 -0400
Likewise, Pete, likewise.
First of all, I thought we were past all that happened last year and that you and I were cool. I have stood by my personal decision to not censor or delete anything on MY blog because it just violates the whole "speak your mind" feel of the blog. I don't believe in airing it out, only to make it all disappear. It's just the way I roll, like it or don't, that isn't my problem. If you don't like what other people post on the comments, don't read it - or take it up with those persons, but leave me out of it.
I did not "talk down" to you like you're "a dog" either, I simply stated how I felt and made some suggestions to help you stop looking like a "flake" (not my word, but one I see often associated with you).
I deleted my profile because I just don't care to be on HauntSpace any more. There will be other profile deletions on other places as well, this one was just one I knew would be noticed and gossiped about. Over the course of the past year, I've dropped off several forums, almost all of the Yahoo groups and have not been much of an active participant really anywhere other than my own forum, plus taking care of my mod duties in the other couple of places that I committed to. Those too will be shed once Halloween is over, as I don't want to leave during the heavy traffic season and put forum admins in a bind.
I just do not have the time any longer to follow every group or forum out there. It has nothing to do with other people, the drama that is unfolding, or anything else. I have changed quite a bit in the past year, due to my work environment, my family life, and my so-called friends. Quite frankly, the people I care to connect with from HauntSpace are all on other forums/groups as well, or on Facebook, so I don't need HauntSpace for that. I'm prioritizing, and HauntSpace has not been a high priority since I've been back. Sorry, but it's true.
I also did not bash YOU on Facebook. I never said ANYTHING about YOU there at all. This is what I said, just to refresh your (or your source's) memory (non-essential replies not included as they have no bearing on the issue):
"Yes, I deleted my Hauntspace account. No, there's no drama associated with it this time. Just not "feelin' it" anymore, and it's a waste of time checking in to see glittery comments and useless nonsense that doesn't have a whole lot to do with actual haunting. (No offense to those who like that stuff, I just don't have time for it these days.)"
"It's not haunting that I'm disassociating myself with, it's just Hauntspace. That place just ain't my cup o' tea anymore."
"Ya know, it's YOUR page, you can do what you want to it- anyone who'd get nasty about it doesn't deserve to be on your list at all. If the dang "disable html comments" function actually WORKED, it wouldn't be so bad. I would really just rather get an actual TYPED message, with some thought or personal words in it. Apparently nobody can think for themselves anymore. There were a few people who'd post small notes to wish a nice weekend without the glitter, which is nice."
"Eh, the glittery stuff can stay on Myspace IMO, it annoyed me that nobody bothers to read profiles and the fact that I even had glitter comments as one of my turn-offs/dislikes. Someone who cared about me or chatted with me at all (or read my profile) would know I detest those things. Of course, I've found that most people really are not that observant. To each his/her own!"
"I would like to point out, for the record, that this is a decision that I have been mulling over for a while now. I went back to HS with doubts about why I was even bothering. I won't go into all of my reasons, but I can tell you that the glitter comments are low on that totem pole, and are only something trivial to comment on. The rest of the story ... well... those who know me well know the reasons. Everyone else can speculate, gossip, what have you. I just don't care anymore. :)"
"Eh, it's just one of those things that runs its course.
Twana - it's no big deal.. lol I tried to bring some levity to my reasoning, now I'm considered a glitter hater. It's all good.
I don't spend hardly any time anywhere anymore other than my own forum and here on FB, with the bursts of HauntForum and GoE here and there, and I still read ALL the emails from the Hall-L, because that's something I'll never give up since it's where the insanity all began. I just don't have time for it all anymore. ... Read More
It's really annoying the drama that's unfolding constantly with people, especially those who claim to hate it, but seem to swim in it. Blog to follow in the next day or two. I'm a changed person these days."
Never once did I "bash" you. I made known my opinions on a couple of issues with HauntSpace. You yourself have also posted on the drama issues and what-not, so do NOT come at me like I'm some sort of bad person.
The fact that Madison was deleted from GoE has nothing to with me, and you can tell her that I really don't care what she chooses to believe or who she blames. I do not "pull strings" there. Steve, as you know, makes his own choices, and I didn't even know anything about his intentions for removing her until yesterday morning, about 2 minutes before he did it, when he emailed his moderators to keep us in the loop. I haven't really even been in contact with most of them much since I've been working nights and sleeping during the day.
She and I had an understanding about the html comments, she respected my wishes and stopped posting them on my page, and sent actual typed messages - which I appreciated and liked. What y'all need to understand is that the glitter comment issue is not directed at her, but at the site in general. If she took it personally, then she should probably get therapy.
And you can also tell her that I am not an attention whore. For that, she can look in the mirror. :) As a matter of fact, this past year, I have not been doing much of anything regarding the haunting scene other than the one interview and going to IronStock. I've never been the most "social" person, and I'm not extroverted enough to want to be in the spot light. I've always said anyone can do what I do, if they only try. How is that being a "big mouth Haunter that think that your skill outweighs everything else in your life"? I have never said anything publicly about Madison, and I think aside from what I told YOU, and three close friends, I have never said anything mean to or about her. I've always said she is a sweet girl, with a good heart and good intentions. I just don't care much for some of the things she does. That in itself is NOT enough for me to try to get her banned, regardless of what you or she, or anyone else for that matter, thinks.
Honestly Pete, you gave me quite the chuckle with this email. You don't really know anything about me, or what's been going on in my life, yet you accuse me of being pathetic and not standing for anything. I haven't had my nose stuck up ANYONE's ass, so that labels me as a "disgrace"? Whatever dude.
Talk to me or not, I don't care anymore. I'm tired of being nice all the time, those days are long gone.
Have a super weekend.
So, now I'm seeing that FOUR people told Madison that I had something to do with her banning, two of whom are on the GoE network. Apparently, they claim I posted it on my FaceBook page. Really? Where? You can ask ANYONE who bothers to read my updates and stuff. There will be NO mention of Madison's or Pete's names at all, because I did not post anything at all about her or him. Why would I? Her banning from GoE and my leaving HS had nothing to do with one another, until she made it so. So, now people are spreading rumors that are not true again, just like last time. Poor Madison is caught up in it, and I am PISSED off with pretty much everyone at this point. So I shoot off this really snotty email to her ON FACEBOOK, where at ANY TIME she could have read ANYTHING on my page if she had so thought to:
The next time you hear gossip and/or rumors, you should probably try looking at the source and the FACTS before you go posting lies and half-truths publicly. I've been nothing but nice to you, yet you didn't even bother to ask me before making assumptions about me or anything that was said. I never once mentioned you or Pete or anyone else specifically in my status update, nor in my comment replies thereafter. I had NOTHING to do with your deletion from GoE, nor did that have anything to do with my choice to leave HauntSpace. Quite frankly, I think it's pretty darned self-centered of you to assume that YOU have anything to do with my decisions or that I care enough about you to have you kicked off any site. I've always said that you are a sweet and caring girl, but I feel that some of the things you do are not exactly selfless. You might have everyone else snowed with your sugary sweetness, but you do not fool me.
And by the way, you can tell Pete that I have lost all respect for him too. Proper admins don't discuss private matters with their butt-kissing friends when asked to keep discussions PRIVATE when everyone concerned is on the same site.
You should have learned by now that you cannot trust the word of so-called "friends" on HauntSpace, some just thrive on lies and drama. Now you're caught up in it again, and I don't appreciate being pulled in with you and being attacked when I didn't do anything to you.
Have a lovely weekend.
Later on, I got this from her:
Madison sent you a message.
Re: The HauntSpace/GoE Drama
I have no idea what you're talking about in regards to "tell Pete"...he didn't sahre that & I didn't ask. I didn't even read all of this because I know that things were said that I have no idea what was true & what wasn't.... All this BS started Wednesday morning when I found a couple of emails talking about how you were bashing HS on FB & I was like...umm, she is ON HS, so why? Then, they said that you'd deleted your account and that I wasn't a member on GOE either. I told them that it was only a couple of nights before hand that I had signed on over there and so, I go to search my name and I wasn't there, so I was in total confusion as to what happened.
That's when I heard that you'd said things about me and I assumed it was things that were said in the open forum of FB as was the HS bashing & Pete bashing, ect...and since then, I've delved deeper and realized that it was things that were not said in the open forum and I admitted I was wrong about it and posted so on the blog.
I do admit that I shouldn't have even mentioned GOE in the blog and I did take the site name out because in all honesty, I was hurt that I was deleted without being told. I am never on GOE, so I don't mind that I'm not a member there. It's Steve's site and whomever he wants on the site is his choice. I just felt that it could have been handled better, but that is a past issue and it's over and done with and I had written an email and said I wasn't mad about it anymore and I'm not. That's why I had removed the site name off the blog. The blog wasn't as much about being deleted as it was about discussing WHY a person is a haunter or isn't one.
I was tired of hearing about it and I wanted to set the record straight about what makes someone a haunter and what doesn't. It's a stupid label and so many are so anal about it, it's laughable. You got brought up to Steve in the email NOT THE BLOG because I told him that I'd received 4 messages saying that you'd told someone that you were upset that Pete had written me a thank you bulletin on HS because you felt "it was an insult to haunters and that I wasn't a real haunter...a nice girl, not a haunter" and I thought that had been posted on FB and I couldn't figure out why you would drag me into it when I had NO idea what was going on. I wasn't sure what was said, but I knew something had been because 4 people quoted the exact same thing. That's the reason for the "true haunter" blog I posted.
About that bulletin, I will just say that if that was true that you'd said it, Pete and I are good friends. I would imagine as good of friends as you and Steve are & we tell one another everything. I didn't want to know about the drama on HS cuz once Grimdaddy & PAHalloweenFreak left, quite frankly, that was all the drama anyone one person should be allowed to endure in a lifetime. For some reason, Ginny made it her mission to try her very best to have me and several others banned from the site and many left, but I didn't. I realized what the troubled twosome was doing & I decided that if I was leaving HS, I was going to have to be kicked from it...it was in spite, I know, but after Grim wrote me a very whiny letter, I wasn't going to give him the satisfaction of seeing me pack up & leave like others did.
Pete was thanking me for that...cuz finally, it dawned on him that it was them and not the others that was causing the problems and after that, Pete and I developed a very close friendship and I trust him and vice versa. It's been a hard road on HS the last year, but we've endured and I'd like to think I had a little small part in it. It was hard, but it has been worth it. Assuming you read my blog, I won't go into what I feel deems a person a haunter, no reason to rehash and as I said before, I'm not mad, just hurt because I didn't feel that a ban was necessary, especially since it was only a few months ago that I'd written Steve a message and said I didn't feel like I belonged there and he said he liked my writing and wanted me to stay. I stayed out of respect for Steve. I was never there to write, I feel bad that I wasn't, but I'm a writer and I just didn't fit into discussions of monster mud and drillbits. It's cool that others are, but I could write about it, but I would have no idea what I was talking about. lol
He did share with me the email you sent him today (or yesterday) and that you'd called me an attention whore. Honestly, no reason for name calling. I don't get any more or any less attention than you do. I posted a blog on HS about it and you posted on FB about it, so what is the difference really? Does it make yours any less or more than mine? We both vented in an open forum, so I guess that would make us both attention whores.
Deanna, I'm not mad at you or Steve. I just felt things could have and should have been handled differently for all of our sakes. I've apologized to Steve and I'll apologize to you, no idea why this went like it did, but maybe we all can get a lesson from it eventually. I at no time said your name in open forum and you say you didn't mine, so no reason why we can't just move on from here. Oh, about the HTML comments, I wasn't upset at all that you didn't like those on your HS. Many don't and when they mention it, just as I did you, they never get one from me again. =)
Since this is already a book, I will add here that I had no intention, when I selected random slideshow on GOE to even remotely pretend any of those props were mine. My slideshow was not showing 6 pumpkins (it would show an ugly no image box), so I removed the box and had a huge hole in my profile, so I selected random slideshow until I could replace the photos and that was all. I'm 27, I would have had to began building props at 2 years old to have been able to have created ALL those props in the slideshow! lol I was shocked and still am that it could have even been suggested that I meant to take credit for those photos. Just as I said, why would I attempt to take credit for props on the very site they were created for!?! I believe that would have been fairly obvious. lol
Oh well, sorry I rambled on. Today is my fiance's birthday and I've been getting things together for his surprise party for this evening, so I was chatty. Take care and seriously, I didn't read this, so no hard feelings. I haven't visited your FB either because there was no reason to read it and get upset over it. I'm just going to let it drop and move on.
Honey, you wouldn't have gotten upset over it, because YOU aren't ON it. I sent this in response:
Deanna Hurlbert Griffith August 28 at 5:31am
That's pretty funny, because those words about what I thought about you are almost WORD for WORD what I said to Pete in a private discussion, and that I ONLY said to Pete and no one else AND that I asked him specifically to keep private. When someone goes to an admin and confides in them, they TRUST that the admin will keep the info to themselves. I have a TON of stuff in my head that people tell me, and do you know where it stays? In my head. I don't discuss conversations that someone asks me not to share with anyone, including my best friends. Pete has done it before, and will continue to do it. Nice guy, good heart - doesn't think straight most of the time.
I stand by every word I said.
Have fun with your fiance'.
So she pasts later about the fact that she was wrong about something in later comments on her HS blog:
I will go on record as to say that I was wrong about thinking something was said about me on an open Facebook forum. It wasn't in open forum, but in messages, so I need to clear up that point. I don't believe I had posted that thought here, but I just wanted to correct that to a person I had told that to cuz I thought it to be the case. When I'm wrong about something, I will admit it.
Well, ya know what? You didn't correct the real problem, and people still think I had you booted thanks to the fact that you didn't bother to do a little reading before posting. It's okay, I'm taking care of that now. This is why I was never really social with people, stupid crap with the he said-she said. High school all over again.
Anyway, Pete sent me this email in reply to my earlier one explaining what had happened:
Subject: Re: Nice Job Kiddo!
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 08:36:22 -0400
> I thoroughly read your response.
> I do care about what you have to say whether I agree with it or not.
> You didn't waste your time on the keyboard.
> I wish you the best of luck Dee.
Whoa buddy! Too late! I'm already madder'n a wet bobcat in a briar bush! My name has been smeared, without my actually doing anything to cause it, I've been attacked and accused of something I have nothing to do with, AND my trust in someone whom I considered a friend and fellow admin has been totally ripped to pieces. I ain't done wasting my time on the keyboard yet.
Well, good. I hope Madison shared what I said with her too since y'all
seem to share a lot. In case she didn't, I'll just share for her. I do
NOT appreciate you telling her what I told YOU about her in CONFIDENCE.
She repeated to me almost WORD FOR WORD what I specifically asked you NOT
to share with anyone . You need a memory refresher, you can check my blog
in the next few days because I will be setting the record straight. Am I
pissed? You betcha. Your word and your friendship means NOTHING to me now
as you don't understand what it is to be a true friend and a good
administrator. I hope you can breathe okay with your foot in your mouth.
Have a super life.
I wasn't as angry this morning as I was yesterday when I sent that............. until I got the next email from Pete in my inbox:
I did yes. I showed a few people what you said. I think you're nothing more than a big mouth. I deal with people like you every day. I could sit here and pick your entire life apart, bit by bit and profile you to a T.
I don't have time.
You do your thing and I'll promise you, it will be considered an act of war and after you and I are done, you're reconsider yourself. I'll go out of my way this time like never before and you have my absolute word on that.
Once your pretty looks run out, see who follows you, you are the BIGGEST drama queen I've ever met. All Haunting skills aside.
You like to win, you like everyone to kiss your feet Dee, it ain't happening here and I'll take our little tiff as far and broad as you choose.
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I hope none of y'all out there have confided in the man, he can't handle himself well when it comes to the privacy of his members. Oh, and Pete, before you go and "pick" my life apart, you should probably stick to the facts involved in THIS issue before you go into my personal life. Yours is something I consider off-limits, and even a "drama queen" and "big mouth" like me would not touch.
Here's my reply back:
You go right ahead. Winning has nothing to do with it. I've already said I had nothing to do with Madison's membership on GoE, and that was the issue I was attacked BY YOU on without your knowing ANY of the facts. I didn't do ANYTHING to you except leave HS. The only thing I will be posting is what happened, what has been said, and what I think of it all. People can draw from it whatever they want. You have every right to bring your big bad police officer self on in to the blog and defend yourself, as it's your right. You don't scare me. Just remember, once it's out, it cannot be taken back. There's a huge difference between you and me, Pete, I don't give a crap what anyone thinks of me at this point. I'm done being nice, and if my reputation suffers, so be it. Anyone who matters already knows how I am, what kind of person I am.
Oh yeah, and any communications we have, including what I said IN PRIVATE TO YOU and asked you to KEEP PRIVATE, WILL be published, so pick your words carefully. I'm sure you know how very public that private conversations can be since you're renowned as a blabber-mouth who can't keep a secret. I know that I am not the only one who you've betrayed in that way and deep down I think I knew you would. I deal with people like YOU every day as well. People told me not to trust you. Shame on me for thinking there might be a shred of "right" in you.
The only thing I will NOT do is bring other people who are not involved in this without their permission, because they don't deserve it. Whether they want to participate is up to them.
So now, this is where I stand. I am going to post what I confided in him back when I came back to HauntSpace - yeah, I saved it. I usually do save important messages, just never know when you're going to need to reference them. I don't remember how we even got on the subject of it all, I think it was his warning me about some other member. I prefer to have everyone know exactly what I said, that way there is no speculation or doubt as to what was discussed. Anyway, here is my message (these were PMs on HS between him and me):
"I'm gonna go ahead and be honest with you on this now since I've been thinking about it quite often since rejoining here. Don't take any of this as my being mean or disrespectful, but as a friend who watches quietly and just shakes her head and sighs. I would appreciate it if this conversation was kept private between me and you and no one else.
You have a tendency to attract them because you let them in. Once you get personal with people, they start to take advantage of that. This may not apply to the pumpkinhead dude, but as a general statement, it applies to most of your problems with some of the members of our community as a whole. I've been very stand-offish with most of the haunters in a private way, and the ones that I do let in - I've known for a long time already and have developed friendships with. I don't jump right in to friendships with people who have just come on the scene, and I don't trust very many people. The ones I do trust, I know I can trust forever. I might not always agree with them, but I know they have my back and I have theirs. I'm pretty much an open book with everyone, but there are personal things I just don't let many in on. Those that I do, I know I don't have to worry about.
There are so many whackos in our world these days, and a lot of them seem to be haunters. I'm not trying to dis anyone, but if you look at it, our microcosm of peers is pretty nuts. Some are nuts in a good way, some are just crazy in a not-so-good way. There will always be troublemakers in every group. You just have to know when to weed them out. If someone is causing problems, or seems to be likely to cause problems, either show them the door or give them a friendly warning privately.
Part of your problem is that you suddenly get overly emotional and start posting your feelings on the forum - you can't do that and not attract unfavorable attention. You want to have a successful venture with HauntSpace? Leave your feelings off the public forum. This applies to both ends of the emotional spectrum - good and bad. Take your proclamation of admiration for Madison... not a good thing to be throwing out there. I know you said you didn't want to hurt feelings or single out people, but that is exactly what you did in posting that. Madison is a sweetheart, she is a really sincerely nice person and is probably a good friend to many - HOWEVER, she's also not a haunter. For you to single her out like that was kind of a slap in the face to the ones who ARE haunters. After all, this is HAUNTSpace, not HorrorMovie/IseeDeadPeopleSpace. I could care less who you like/dislike, but public displays of gratitude to people who don't really fit the goal of the site is just kinda weird.
Same thing goes with your posts about Ginny and Wally's comments on Myspace. Who cares? Myspace has nothing to do with HauntSpace and vice-versa. Who cares what they are saying over there? Anyone with half a brain knows that they are bitter, pathetic people. Your lashing out at them on the forum was really in bad taste. I didn't bash HauntSpace on my forum or any other when you showed me the door. I blogged in my personal blog about how I felt about it. That's what blogs are for. Everything was done out in the open, with nothing held back and nothing deleted. I posted every single problem and all of it stands even now, even if some people didn't have the balls to show their name and even if I didn't agree with it all. It's all still there, for scrutiny now. You can't post and delete constantly - it makes you look like kind of like a manic or a drunk who sobers up or comes around to his senses the next morning and only causes rumors to fly, and trust me buddy, they ARE flying. There really is a time and place for things, and the forum here is not a place for that kind of stuff, especially from the site owner.
Again, I don't mean to offend you or hurt your feelings, and I definitely don't want to argue with you. I just want to try to help you be a better site owner/admin and keep the respect you deserve. You can't hold on to the respect when you keep changing your mind by the hour. Once you do something or post something, STAND by it. Think twice before posting publicly. Always ALWAYS watch your back... AND your front. I, for one, will stab you in the front. ;-)
And this is the rest of that particular conversation, back and forth (Pete's the yellow type):
I'm ok with that. I appreciate your insight.
I hope you're not angry or upset with anything I wrote. I just want to help, and being honest is the only way I know how to do so. I do consider you a friend - we've known each other a long time, even if only online - which is why I felt I could be frank with you.
Nah, I need smacked around sometimes to keep my head on straight.
On here, I usually speak my peace and get rid of it later because I feel that continuous rants make the site look bad.
I'm the same way, when I have stuff to say I say it. Sometimes I'm sorry I let people have it afterwards LOL.
In my case, I have to learn that the perception is important. I always expect people to know what I'm talking about or understand where I'm coming from. Honestly, this site has been such a pain. I've lost friends over it, sweat over it and cried my eyes out over it at times. It's ridiculous haha.
But.............I've learned that everything works out in the end when the intentions are good.
You........will always mean something to me. We've been around for quite some time and love the season. I just wish I had my house still and a shop so I could learn, build and do some REAL Haunting.
I can't wait to see what the farm thing does. I SO want to do a Haunted Attraction. OMG, I can taste it.
Anyhoo, have to hit bed, seeya soon.
Thanks Pete. I always worry that the things I say could be hurtful, which is why I tend to keep things to myself.
Oh, I do have to be honest with you about something you said.
Back when I did my Madison post umm, I did mean it, she's a good girl and an extremely active member.
But while talking to her on the phone the night prior, the Wally and Ginny thing was a topic of discussion because the two of them have been talking a bunch of smack on me on other sites etc and it became clear that they are lurking around here quite often. I also think we have some leaks on here I just haven't been able to figure out who yet.
I don't know if I ever told you but Madison is and was HATED by Wally and Ginny. They HATED HER. When Wally and Ginny came to my party, Madison was mentioned over and over again, they wanted rid of her so bad on here. I told her that Wally and Ginny would have a COW.............if I posted that in public being that they felt that she was here to take the site over LOL. Someone sent me a myspace quote having to do with them saying that their worst nightmare came true or something like that.
No one will ever do a number on me like that again let me tell you.
I was sent another quote from MySpace the very next day, the two of them WENT OFF LOL. I really didn't think that anyone would feel slighted by it at the time, but now that I look back I can see where it probably smacked some people in the face. Not intentional.
On a good note, things are good here now, the activity is amazing. Hopefully this will be the last year I have to live in this townhouse and I'll be able to get a place with a garage or basement so I can build some stuff. I have all these ideas and no shop. GRRR.
Anyhoo, just thought I'd share that stuff with you. Are you doing any special projects this year?
You don't have to justify yourself to me. It's your site, you can do what you want on it. But, it kind of makes your love-post about Mad get under all the actual HAUNTERS' skin. You had your reasons, but when nobody else knows the reason behind the post, it ruffles feathers and hurts feelings, not mention causes the rumors to fly. I could care less who you post about. Just don't ever post about me, good or bad, and everything will be A-OK in my book. ;-) But, back to the topic at hand, you stooped to the level of Wally and Ginny when you did that, playing games is not the way to get back at people.
I think Madison is a really nice girl. She's flaky as hell, and needs to get a life, but really nice. I despise Wally and Ginny, and honestly I believe that a huge part of their problem with Madison is that she is an attention-seeker and they didn't like that SHE got attention, which took away from THEIR attention seeking. Let's face it, the girl is a knock out. People like her, especially the guys. She's sickeningly sweet and seems to care about people and their feelings. It might not look like it, but I like her.
Wally and Ginny are unattractive on the outside AND the inside. That makes them jealous, thus more bitter toward people like Madison. Add to the fact that Madison really doesn't post anything Haunt-related, well... I dunno... At least she posts Halloween-ish stuff. She contributes a lot of other stuff... a shoulder to cry on, a sympathetic ear, a kind word. That is admirable to me and one of the reasons I DO like her.
Do I sound jealous? I'll admit, it sounds that way; but in all actuality, I'm not. I'm a haunter and a prop-builder, I'm proud of it. I don't need a lot of attention - I actually find it a bit annoying, but that's just me. I don't need to constantly post every single minute of the day to feel like I'm part of the in-crowd. I do try to add something here and there so I don't get accused of being a non-contributing member again. I want to be able to help people when I can and I try to do so in a quiet and unassuming way. I don't want glory, I want the respect of my peers.
Anyway, I've rambled on enough, I'm sure you're tired of my negativity. I just want to make myself perfectly clear on how I feel, whether it matters or not. Take it all with a grain of salt.
That's all I saved from any of my HauntSpace PMs with Pete. Now it's all out in the open, I've got nothing left. I stand by every single word I said to Pete. I still think Madison is a great girl, despite how angry I was at her for listening to other people and not bothering to ask me if I had anything to do with it. She was on my friends list on FB, it's not like she couldn't just log in and see for herself. She asked on her blog on HS, "What is a Haunter?" I do not believe she is a Haunter. She's a good writer from what I hear, she's a fantastic friend to those who can call her one, she's a terrific HS contributor and a fellow Halloween fanatic. A "weener" or "weenie", as we've all affectionately been called - yes. Haunt enthusiast - yes. Halloween Party thrower - yes. Just not what I consider an actual haunter. I agree that there are all sorts of people who are haunters that do not build props. In my opinion, haunters are people who have something to do with an actual haunt of some sort. When I say haunt, I mean a display, a walk through, some sort of attraction that brings people in, whether it's in a garage, your front yard, or a full-on commercial walk-through with all the bells and whistles. You can be a prop builder, a haunt actor, make up artist, or set designer. It doesn't matter if you make all of your own props, or you buy every single last one of them from Wal Mart. Loving Halloween does not automatically make you a haunter. Throwing a Halloween party does not make you a haunter. If that were the case, there would be a LOT more haunters in the world. Simply buying a costume once a year does not make you a haunter. Decorating a bit for the day does not make you a haunter. If that were so, then every person who put out a Mickey Mouse inflatable or Jack-o-Lantern would be considered a haunter. They're not. I think we all know that. I'm not trying to devalue how people see themselves or how they categorized themselves. I'm only showing what I think a haunter is and is not. I think it's safe to say that my word is not the gospel, nor is anyone else's. But if you ask around to the people who spend countless hours working on their haunts what a haunter is, their answers would be pretty similar to mine. Skill level has nothing to do with it. Money has nothing to do with it. Who has the biggest prop has nothing to do with it.
If you're reading this, and you think I'm wrong, that's fine. We just have different ideas on what makes a haunter, well.. a haunter.
As for Pete, I will not address him unless it is here, out in the open for all to see. Any other forms of communication will be ignored. Any other topics than the ones in this blog and the one directly before it will be ignored. That is one bridge that I care not to mend.
Now, let the Ghostess-bashing begin.
***This is the reply from Pete the following day after the blog was published:
"Umm, I don't remember bringing the Cop thing into the picture. You're grasping at straws.
I have no idea about the "trust" thing, that's the first time ANYONE has accused me of breaking their trust. I simply did what you ALWAYS do. You're a copy and paste freak. You've put EVERY single PRIVATE message you and I ever had on your blog, you want to talk about betraying someone.
I didn't threaten you in the least, I simply told you the way it was. If you badmouth me anymore on your blogs, I'm going to get a dot com just for you and tell "my" side of the story. I'll keep it going until I'm dead, at least it will give you something to do so you're not bored, rebutting everything I say on a daily basis.
I bring things out in open and clean up afterwards because I don't need the security of seeing my dramatic bullshit all over the net. I've never heard you admit to any fault, I've never heard you say you're sorry.
You can make little comments about me all you want, in how people thing I'm "flaky". YOU, have been recently referred to as a person lacking "class" and I consider that an insult. I'd rather be flaky.
I don't have to pick my words wisely, I might care about how I'm perceived but I have enough people in my life (not referring to the net) that follow me, respect me and would go to bat about the things I've done in my life ANYTIME. I earned my friends.............
You do your thing Dee, and I've already told you that your actions will have consequences. I don't wish ill things on you and if I saw you, I'd simply snicker and walk the other way but I'll match your words on the internet.
When someone Googles things about your endeavors the only reason they show up is because you put them there. I mean geeze, take a look at yourself, your entire life is on the internet.
You're not a nice person, you may have some of your male friends fooled, but not me.
And do you have ADD or something. I clearly told you why I'm pissed. You were talking shit on facebook, label it any way you wish. You brought it up, people chimed in. You entertained immature conversation about "shutting the site down".
You asked me not to talk about you, I didn't. I simply took your message, and showed it to a couple people for their perspective. You put every square inch of our conversations in the past on your site. Do you deny this?
You caused me harm when you did that. You're like a typical attorney that argues until you're blue in the face, it doesn't matter what your arguing about as long you think you're right.
HEH, at least when I disagreed about Steve's decision to boot Madison, I told you guys to your faces behind the scenes and admitted that it was none of my business but got a little upset because YES I consider her a friend and I was pissed that she probably felt rejected. You don't know people like you think you do and you've never, worked with anyone like me.
I'm not responding to any more of your messages, it's a waste of time, you can email me every day to tell me what a douche bag I am. Again........... you're the one that went out of her way to cause damage with your words, display inability to follow rules, and your blog that is a never ending diarrhea of the mouth and constipation of the thought.
I took you off my Christmas list this year :)
About trust - funny, that's not what I've seen. You betrayed my trust when you showed my words to other people. I believe the last sentence in the first paragraph of what I said to you in the main private message is this:
"I would appreciate it if this conversation was kept private between me and you and no one else."
When you showed it around, you broke that trust. And I didn't show every PM we've ever had, only the ones pertaining to this issue. If you asked me right this minute to keep everything else from this day forward that we ever discussed private, I would not share it with anyone. That is the difference between you and me.
Where the hell did you see anything about "shutting the site down"? NO one mentioned anything about that, not in public and not in private to me. Pete, you need to remember that I am not the only one who you've pissed off in the past, nor will I be the last.
And finally, it doesn't matter what you said to me and Steve behind the scenes. You know how the rumor mill works. Every time something happens, and you post your overly emo rants, and people go around saying "so and so did this", and "so and so did that", people get hurt.
With that, I have nothing more to say to you, ever.
You're off my Halloween list. Permanently.